7 Responses

  1. Antonis Petropoulos February 16, 2012 at 8:05 am |

    As the founder of Communalism also wrote back in 1987:

    “Social ecology is neither deep, tall, fat, nor thick. It is social. It does not fall back on incantations, sutras, flow diagrams, or spiritual vagaries. It is avowedly rational. It does not try to regale metaphorical forms of spiritual mechanism and crude biologism with Taoist, Buddhist, Christian, or shamanistic Eco-la-la. It is a coherent form of naturalism that looks to evolution and the biosphere, not to deities in the sky or under the earth for quasi-religious and supernaturalistic explanations of natural and social phenomena.
    Murray Bookchin, Social Ecology versus Deep Ecology, A Challenge for the Ecology Movement, 1987″ Read at http://libcom.org/library/social-versus-deep-ecology-bookchin

  2. Corey Little February 16, 2012 at 8:52 am |

    In or about the 17th paragraph, Murray writes that humans have “evolved out of” first nature. I strongly disagree: the correct phrase, I think, would be humans “Continue to evolve within” first nature. The “new domain” is always-already embedded within first nature. All our social evolution is always-already an evolution of first nature.

    This distinction does not change Bookchin’s main argument much, or perhaps at all, but does point to the proclivity of the vain ape to impute exceptionalism to itself.

  3. Jeff White February 16, 2012 at 11:54 am |

    Bookchin wrote:

    “As naturalists, we respect the fact that human beings have evolved out of first or non-human nature as mammals and primates to form a new domain composed of mutable institutions, technologies, values, forms of communication.” (my emphasis)

    To me, this is indisputably correct. By “first nature” Bookchin expressly means “non-human nature”. Far from being “embedded” within non-human nature, humans have evolved into creatures having society, culture, technology, and many other features that are present in our closest animal relatives only to a rudimentary and incipient degree. We inhabit a “new domain” of nature, a “second nature”, as Bookchin calls it.

    To fail to understand and acknowledge this is to fail to understand the difference between Bookchin’s “social ecology” and the “deep ecology” he is arguing against. As Bookchin says:

    “To blame technology per se for this terrible distortion of second nature; to deal with human population growth as if it were not influenced profoundly by cultural factors; to reduce the basic social factors that have produced the present ecological crisis to largely, often purely biological ones — all this is to deflect attention away from the fact that our ecological dislocations have their primary source in social dislocations.” (my emphasis)

  4. Corey Little February 16, 2012 at 1:19 pm |

    Jeff,

    Let me make sure I am understanding your contention: you are saying that because humans have society, culture, technology, and many other features that are present in our closest animal relatives only to a rudimentary and incipient degree, our species is no longer embedded within and co-evolving with the natural world? I am sure I must be mis-understanding your point.

    I am not in opposition to what I perceive as Bookchin’s primary thesis, which seems to be that humanity is in sore need of social evolution in order to help fix our relationship with the planet, and that indeed, social evolution is the only way out the mess we are in.

    But, setting that aside, to somehow think that our evolution, in any sense (social or physical), has created a special human facility that disassociates homo sapiens from the evolutionary processes and terrain in which we physically abide is categorically impossible.

    The only way species evolve “out” of nature is to go extinct.

    I think the balance of Bookchin’s remarks actually support this view, for example:

    **Yet social ecology is also naturalistic in the very important sense that it stresses humanity’s and society’s profound roots in natural evolution. Hence my use of the term “second nature” to emphasize the development of human social life out of the natural world.**

    My singular strong disagreement with his work is the phrase “out of”, which suggests the aforementioned disassociation — which is ecologically absurd. I think it was poor choice of words; the way I interpret his intent in using this poorly chosen phrase was that he was trying to demonstrate that the natural world served as the nourishment and foundation of the human species evolution, which has created/resulted-in the “new domain” — the conscious evolution of which is our best hope in responding to the ecological crisis we have precipitated.

  5. Jeff White February 17, 2012 at 4:06 am |

    Bookchin posits two “domains” within the natural world. He calls them “first nature” or “non-human nature”, and a “new domain” he calls “second nature”. This is all apparent from the excerpt published above, and re-emphasized in my comment.

    Neither Bookchin nor I maintains that humans are evolving outside of the “natural world” as you put it.

    Bookchin’s whole point, which apparently you missed altogether, is that humans are subject not only to the laws of nature, but also to the laws of the society and political economy we have created. We are, as he says, both biological and social beings. That distinction is important. We cannot solve our ecological problems without solving the socio-political ones. That’s the point that the “deep ecologists” don’t get.

    Neither do the populationists, who seek to apply to human society concepts of “carrying capacity”, mechanically lifted from the study of animal populations, thereby banishing any consideration of the real social problems that are at the root of our ecological crisis.

    Your obsessive focus on the two words “out of” has distracted you from the point. It was not a poor choice of words: it’s a perfectly normal phrase to use to describe the progression from a more elemental state to a more advanced one. At first you tried to impute a meaning to those two words that Bookchin clearly did not intend. Then when I pointed that out in my previous comment, you tried to impute that meaning to my words. You were mistaken on both occasions.

  6. Corey Little February 17, 2012 at 7:37 am |

    Okay, I can agree with your gist. I agree that the vast majority of the ecological damage humans inflict is based in a failure to evolve socially; clearly, there are additional pressures caused at the margin by gross population increase, but they are diminutive in relation to our current failure to evolve socially.

    (It seems to me that socio-political “problems” are problems based in a failure to evolve socially).

    You initially took issue with — and dismissed — the term “embedded”; but now you agree that humans are not “outside of” the natural world. Let’s set that aside as the vagaries of argument, because on paper it seems a patent contradiction.

    I don’t think that acknowledging homo sapiens remain bound to natural law, including the theory of carrying capacity, need necessarily “banish” consideration of our social evolution, unless the premise is that most people can not walk and chew gum at the same time.

    Let us agree, perhaps, that capitalistic derived oppressions and the whole host of social inequity they foster are the result of a social evolutionary process that is clearly, at this point, mal-adaptive.

    It seems, perhaps, there are two ways this mal-adaption will be remedied: through conscious social evolution or through the feedback loops of first nature.

  7. Rory Short February 19, 2012 at 1:16 pm |

    This quote from Murray Bookchin’s book caught my interest:

    An “anthropocentrism” that is based on the religious principle that the Earth was “made” to be dominated by “Humanity” is as remote from my thinking as a “biocentrism” that turns human society into just another community of animals.

    It did so because I fully agree with him that that earth was not made to dominated by humanity nor are we just another community of animals.

    Nevertheless we are the products of nature and will always remain so even if we reach the stage of being able to synthesise the human genome from inert raw materials. This is because anything that we produce must also be a product of nature because we, as its producers, are ourselves the products of nature and our ability to create things is itself a product of nature. Thus our ultimate destiny as I see it is to consciously join in with Nature’s creative endeavours.

    Up until now our participation in this endeavour has been, whether we like it or not, in large measure unconscious. The consequences of our unconscious participation in the evolution of our particular corner of the universe have not been good, e.g. Climate change etc., etc., so it is high time that we sought to transform our mode of participation in evolution from ‘unconscious’ to ‘conscious cooperation’ with nature. Our consciousness is the product of nature and I personally think that it has evolved to enable us to be able to consciously join with nature in evolution.

    As participants in evolution we have developed organisational hierarchies for reasons of functional efficiency within the group. Now it is possible for the social power of the group to be retained at the bottom most level of the organisational hierarchy. Silent Meeting Quakers, of which I am one, are organised like this, the social power of the group never leaves the bottom most level of any Silent Meeting Quaker organisation. The currently dominant norm within society however has been to progressively cede social power from the bottom most level of the hierarchy to the top most level. An example of this is the powers given to a democratically elected President such as the American President.

    In my view this organisational norm is an evolutionary cul-de-sac, a mistake, an evolutionary failure. It is an organisational norm which mirrors in the human world the animal world, that of having pack leaders. It this norm that is preventing the people at the bottom most level of global organisational hierarchies from stopping the upper levels of these hierarchies from destroying the planet because the upper levels can easily be bought by narrow groupings of special interests within society. To me Obama seems to be good example of this. Before he was elected he appeared to be for the environment now he seems to be for the fossil fuel industry instead and as things currently stand it is very difficult for those at the bottom level of the hierarchy to do anything about it.

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